*

*
Politics Extra
Enquirer reporters give the scoop on what your politicians are doing


Jessica Brown,
Hamilton County reporter


Jon Craig,
Enquirer statehouse bureau


Jane Prendergast,
Cincinnati City Hall reporter


Malia Rulon,
Enquirer Washington bureau


Carl Weiser,
Blog editor


Howard Wilkinson,
politics reporter

Powered by Blogger

Friday, December 09, 2005

New rules give mayor a 'pocket veto'

Democratic council members David C. Crowley and Laketa Cole got all of the attention for their opposition to rule changes adopted by Cincinnati City Council this week.

But Republican Leslie Ghiz -- while not as public in her criticism of the Rules Committee -- also voted against two rule changes, including one that could give the mayor what she calls a "pocket veto."

A sentence on council procedures in Rule 8.1 makes a subtle but important change to how items get to a vote: "Once approved by a committee, the item is sent to the mayor through the clerk of council for placement on the council agenda." (Emphasis added.) Previously, the clerk automatically put any item passed by a committee on the agenda.

That change, Ghiz said, could theoretically allow the mayor to preempt council action by simply refusing to schedule a vote. And while the charter gives him a veto power over ordinances, the mayor could conceivably use the rule to extend that power to block resolutions, motions and other council business he was previously powerless to stop.

"I wasn't comfortable voting for rules that could theoretically give the mayor a pocket veto," Ghiz said. "If those particular rules are changed to protect future councils from a potential pocket veto, I'll vote for them."

Mayor Mark Mallory told City Council on Wednesday that he would not refuse to place an item on the agenda absent some extraordinary circumstance. It's the same power the speaker of the House or the Senate president has in Columbus and Washington, his council allies say.

And Rules Committee Chairman Jeff Berding said City Council does have recourse to check the power of a future mayor who would abuse the rules: A council member could move to suspend the rules and ask for immediate consideration -- a non-debatable motion that requires six votes.

That's the same margin it takes to override a veto.


18 Comments:

at 11:36 AM, December 09, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good for Leslie. That rule sounds really shady - I can't believe no one else is worried about the implications of that.

 
at 12:08 PM, December 09, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm a Dem and fully support Mallory, but, although he may not abuse the rule, I'm not so certain a Pepper like would not ?

It hurts bad to say this, but, Great job, Leslie !!! Are you sure you don't want to become a democrat ?

 
at 12:25 PM, December 09, 2005 Blogger Nathaniel Livingston Jr. said...

I've read enough books on the history of Cincinnati to know that City Council was never designed to be run like Congress or the State Legislature. Why the Charterites are rolling over & supporting these changes is beyond me.

 
at 1:07 PM, December 09, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nate- All you've done since Mallory was sworn in is criticize him for cancelling the meeting after Christmas and for changing rules that no one outside city hall cares about. How fickle your support is!

 
at 1:29 PM, December 09, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why put in a rule you say you don't plan to use, or that you defend only by saying you can suspend it? What's the point of having it, then?

This stuff is all very sneaky if you ask me. The Mallory/Berding power grab continues, while good government with checks and balances is eroded.

 
at 1:48 PM, December 09, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

And Mallory is not the Speaker of the House or the Senate President--he's the Mayor! This would be like giving Bush or Bob Taft the sole ability to block legislation that had passed a legislative committee, and would pass the full body, from going forward to that full body. If part of the point of the legislature is to check the executive, this is too much.

 
at 4:28 PM, December 09, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

This new rule is very dangerous. I can't believe that the others would pass it. Why do they need it if they are promising not to use it? Wouldn't it be better to pass a contingency plan in case of the extreme circumstances that Mallory is referring to instead of making this the rule and not the exception?

Good for you Leslie for not rubber stamping this!

 
at 5:07 PM, December 09, 2005 Blogger Nathaniel Livingston Jr. said...

Anon 12/9/05, 1:07pm

We should all care about good government. A basic tenant of good government is open meetings. Another is accepting citizen input even when that input is critical. Council's secret organizing meeting and subsequent adopting of the rule don't demonstrate a dedication by the new Council to good government. That's why I've said the things I have about them.

I supported Mallory over Pepper, and I still support Mayor Mallory. That said, I'll never blindly follow anyone. If independent thinking equates to fickleness in your mind then feel free to keep calling me fickle. I prefer to stay focused on the issues.

Alicia

I don't want to tell Greg Korte and the Enquirer how to run their blog but your comments have nothing to do with the topic of this thread/entry.

As for your question, you aren't suggesting my picture and image are owned by a broadcasting corporation are you? I didn't think so. Said another way, my picture and image belong to me and always have belonged to me.

 
at 10:27 PM, December 09, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh no! not change! change is bad! change is bad! status quo good!

but but but what if somethind bad happens?

Make it stop!

Find a happy place!

 
at 7:57 AM, December 10, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

The use of agenda control or agenda setting is an extremely appropriate and reasonable use of power. This is the same power exercised by the rules committee in virtually every legislature and is the proper role of the majority party leadership. To not view a city council as a legislature is confusing to say the least. A threshold requirement exists of six votes so if council has the passion on a specific issue then they can move as a unified force against the will of the mayor. These rule changes are simply part of a larger movement that is effecting all cities. Since the 1950s we are all slowly creeping back toward a hybrid model of municipal government. We are currently at a evolutionary place where Cincinnati's neither favors the executive mayor or the strong council models. These rule changes are simply a sign of the continuing pooling of power in the hands of the mayor. Once Cincinnati chose the top-vote-getter model the power has begun its steady flow back toward the office of the mayor. This a far larger movement that goes well beyond the acts of a handful of councilmembers or a mayor. With bossism dead, this is a countrywide trend that is slowly permitting stronger mayoral leadership. Streamlining council and encouraging a more unified voice is just one step in the evolution. Also, rule changes happen in every legislature. You tweak it here and there with an end goal in mind. This use of proceedural control can be viewed as a sign that we as a city simply need to let the strong mayor or "conciliated" model mature before we begin toy with considering the executive mayor model. New mayoral leadership styles can easily bring about significant council control without enhancing "charter" powers. We as a city are consistently moving away from the strong council model of legislative leadership. This is just one more step in the process.
MERGNER

 
at 2:14 PM, December 10, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This would be like giving George Bush or Bob Taft the sole ability to block legislation that had passed a legislative committee, and would pass the full body, from going forward to that full body. If part of the point of the legislature is to check the executive, this is too much."

President Bush can already do this. The U.S. Constitution requires the President to sign or veto any legislation placed on his desk within ten days (not including Sundays). If he does not, then it becomes law by default. The exception to this rule is if Congress adjourns before the ten days are up. In such a case the bill does not become law, it is effectively, if not actually, vetoed. This ability is in fact where the term "pocket veto" originated. Whether or not the Governor has a similar power, I do not know.

These rule changes, while clearly designed to streamline business, do not necessarily mean that City government is now, all of the sudden, authoritarian and unresponsive to the the voters and the popular will. The prior ability of a minority of council members (any number from 1 to 4) or a group or groups of unelected individuals from monopolizing the legislative time of City Council is arguably just as undemocratic. And as Mergner seems to point out on every one of these posts, moving to a directly elected mayor indicates a growing comfortability of the public with greater power and direction from the mayor.

I also wish to stress, again, that legislation from a municipality is a lot different from that of the state or national government. Quoting Montesquieu or The Federalist is all well and good, but it is perhaps a bit of a stretch to apply their ideas to a 21st century modern city government. Finally, can we give these rule changes a chance so we can see if they are effective or valuable before we make a decision on them?

 
at 6:52 PM, December 10, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a bunch of nonsense. This is a blatant power grab--one that makes the Mayor a one-man legislature. This is Soviet-style democracy.

 
at 10:08 AM, December 11, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good points Nate !

You succeed when you are diplomatic !

Nate, you will always have nuts trying to shoot the messenger when they don't like the message !
Some will draw the gun even when they disagree with the terminology or method of delivery !

You would seem to have fair use of your own likness in a photo. Did they pay you for your likeness ? This clearly demonstrates the value of alicia comments !

Anon:

This is a power grab !

lincoln:

Veto power is far different than censorship !

 
at 8:30 PM, December 11, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ghiz is so right on this one. It's Mallory's usual "playing dumb" and pretending he's just going along with what people want when all he really is after is a power grab to take away what we voted Council to have...checks and balance with with the mayor. (the guy with the official portrait, enterage and motorcade. HRH Prince Mallory.) But, because he's such a wimp and will bend and twist with the wind, I guess if anyone complains loud enough he'll back down and not pocket veto.

 
at 10:08 AM, December 13, 2005 Blogger Nathaniel Livingston Jr. said...

Lincoln Kennedy

President Bush CANNOT block legislation that has passed a legislative committee, and would pass the full body, from going forward to that full body. Where do you come up with this stuff?! Have they quit teaching civics & govt. in high school?

 
at 9:33 AM, December 14, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mallory has not done one thing except MEET. What happened to the campaign promises: Check taser use, create environmental department, safety director, just to name a few.

 
at 10:23 AM, December 14, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Give him a chance. Wait for the budget. He'll definitely put these priorities in the budget for next year--which should be coming out in the next several days.

 
at 10:12 PM, December 17, 2005 Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm starting to hear that his budget is nothing but special interest give-aways. Imagine announcing a budget without one public hearing, especially when you know so little about the city's issues.

 
Post a Comment*

* Our online blogs currently are hosted and operated by a third party, namely, Blogger.com. You are now leaving the Cincinnati.Com website and will be linked to Blogger.com's registration page. The Blogger.com site and its associated services are not controlled by Cincinnati.Com and different terms of use and privacy policy will apply to your use of the Blogger.com site and services.

By proceeding and/or registering with Blogger.com you agree and understand that Cincinnati.Com is not responsible for the Blogger.com site you are about to access or for any service you may use while on the Blogger.com site.

<< Home


Blogs
Jim Borgman
Today at the Forum
Paul Daugherty
Politics Extra
N. Ky. Politics
Pop culture review
Cincytainment
Who's News
Television
Roller Derby Diva
Art
CinStages Buzz....
The Foodie Report
cincyMOMS
Classical music
John Fay's Reds Insider
Bengals
High school sports
NCAA
UC Sports
CiN Weekly staff
Soundcheck